Hello everyone and welcome to our webinar on using the CSRD to accelerate the sustainability transformation. We're really excited to see so many of you interested in this topic. My name is Manuela and I'm here today with my colleague Kasper. Yes, and a warm welcome also from me to all of you. Manuela and I, we are really passionate about sustainability and I guess you are too since you are tuning in to this today. We feel it's probably the most important topic right now. So, thank you for joining and being part of the journey. So, how do you actually feel about this whole thing, Manuela, sort of turning sustainability from soft law into hard law and with all these requirements? Manuela Huck-Wettstein, Jov. It's really exciting to see. I mean, I've been working in sustainability reporting for more than eight years now and it's really cool to see. I've never before actually seen so many companies engaged in sustainability and tackling sustainability issues and I think the CSRD really is a game changer. So, excited to see things moving on the agenda. And actually, the two of us, we're working on CSRD projects on a daily basis and we're eager to share now our approach, our experiences and also insights from working with our clients with you today. In this webinar, we will first provide you with an overview of the CSRD and its key requirements and we then, want to show you how we, from implement, typically approach a CSRD project with our clients. Third, we will share some insights from our client work with you and give you our take on turning the CSRD into a business value driver. Finally, we have some time for a Q&A. However, please share your questions anytime throughout the webinar in the chat and we can then pick it up at the end. So, we plan for an interactive session with you today. So, in order to also get you going, we'd like to do a little exercise with you. Nothing big, nothing hard. Just please share your name and maybe your function in the chat box and if you like, state where you're tuning in today from. Yeah, and we are here in Copenhagen today where I am based. Manuela is not from Copenhagen, as you can hear. Yeah, you can definitely hear that. My wonderful accent is actually a Swiss accent. I'm based in Zurich, usually, today here with Kasper here in Hellerup in our wonderful studio. We're looking forward to see where you are and who you are. We will have some chats and polls throughout the webinar. And as mentioned, you can share your questions via the chat anytime through the webinar. If you didn't see it yet, you can find the menu for the polls or the questions on the top right of your screen. So, yes. Yeah, and we'll try to make it as interactive. It was important for us to not make it sort of a one-way street as many webinars tend to be. We wanted to try to get some interaction here. So, we will also try to save as much time towards the end for discussing with you and capturing your key sort of challenges and benefits that you see around this whole CSRD readiness. So, I hope you will enjoy this style. So, I hope you will enjoy this style. But we can definitely see some comments coming in here. We see a lot of different companies and locations. We both have Copenhagen. I can see here. We also have Switzerland. Nice. Two times. A little more already. Fantastic. And Aarhus. Sweden as well. Yeah. Very exciting. Super nice. Denmark. We have a lot of Denmark. Another one from Zurich tuning in. Yeah, we have quite some people from Switzerland and also Germany joining in here. From calling, I can see also, yeah. Wonderful. Thank you so much for joining and for being on the journey with us. I guess for many it is still to some extent new. The requirements are still sort of the guidance around it is constantly being updated. So, I guess we all in various shapes and forms are having to look into what's really the right way to go about it and so on. So, hopefully we can help shed some light on that today based on our experiences. Yes. So, that's what we're here today now for. So, let's dive into the CSRD. And how to use it to accelerate the sustainability transformation of your business. We start with a brief overview of the CSRD and its key requirements. So, the CSRD actually introduces mandatory sustainability reporting for around 50,000 companies within the EU and roughly 10,000 companies outside the EU. Basically, you can say that all companies with more than 250 employees and a turnover of 50 million euros, or a balance sheet of 25 million euros are expected to report on sustainability in the future. But also, non-EU companies, as mentioned, with a relevant subsidiary or branch in the EU and later on also small and medium-sized enterprises will need to report. There are different timelines for the companies to publish their first sustainability report according to CSRD. The ones that have been subject to the NFRD, the predecessor of the CSRD, already have to report on this year, 2024, then in 2025. In a nutshell, you can say that the CSRD requires companies to disclose how they manage environmental, social and governance topics, including how they address material impacts, risks and opportunities. Well, we can see that the CSRD report needs to be incorporated in the management report of the annual report and also undergo third-party assurance. This is a very different key element from before. To report on CSRD, you need to use the ESRS, the European Sustainability Reporting Standards. So, in our view, the CSRD actually is a means to an end. It is not just about external sustainability reporting. The aim of the regulation is the sustainable transformation of companies. In our view, the CSRD is also a boost to transparency. Eventually, the content of the report will reflect the maturity of your company's sustainability management. management and performance. And last but not least, in our view, the CSRD is also an invitation to get fit for a sustainable future. You can create business value by taking a forward-looking approach and viewing the CSRD not just as a regulatory requirement, but as a strategic opportunity for your business. And we'll dive into that a little later more. The CSRD, as I mentioned, is implemented through the ESRS. The ESRS contain more than 700 requirements, depending on what and basically how you count, to be honest. However, you don't need to report on all of those, luckily, but only the general disclosures and the ones connected to a sustainability topic that is material to your business. The ESRS contain four types of disclosure requirements. requirements. Requirements around governance, strategy, management of impacts, risks, and opportunities, and as well, metrics and targets. Unlike what many people think, most requirements do not involve numbers, but actually narratives. So, now we are curious to understand where you are with your preparations for the CSRD. Please share your current state of preparations with us in the poll. That would be awesome. You should be able to see it on the top right of your screen. So, haven't you started yet? I think you should get going. Are you getting started right now? I wish you a good start. And are you maybe already conducting a double materality assessment right now? Or a little further with assessing the gaps and actions you need to take to become more sustainable and more compliant? Are you maybe already taking the necessary actions to become compliant and move on on the sustainability agenda? Or you say, well, we're all set, we're all set, we're all set, and we just need to report and wrap up and publish? I think then you're in a really good position already now. And, yeah, we'll see that at the moment, at least, the poll says that most of you are getting started right now with roughly a third of the responses. Some are in the face of a double materality assessment. Tricky part as well, or very essential. And crucial part, I'd say. I'd say we have a few companies already set and ready to report. Really cool. That's good to see. Yeah. That's excellent. Yeah, we definitely see the majority. I would say a little more than two thirds either in the getting started phase or in the process of a double materality, which is probably also what we expect from the future. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Also what we expected and what we also experience on a daily basis. Definitely. Especially the double materality. We can definitely see the numbers on this one also going up now. So we're approaching 40% of you saying that this is where you are in the process right now. So I think we should take a look at how we, from an implement perspective, recommend the CSRD readiness approach. And as mentioned, we're working with this. On a daily basis, we're working with a lot of companies that are in this stage and looking at how to progress. So this is a little bit busy and sorry for that, but we wanted to sort of condense the whole journey into one view and having it sliced in six parts, as you can see here. This is what we recommend as a journey. And it, of course, depends on where you are. So some companies will be further along and be more mature in some areas than others. And that obviously influences how you structure this journey. But let's assume that we're talking about a company that only is just getting started. Then what are the key steps to consider here? And starting with the first phase, which we are calling kicking off. It can have many names, but this is where you really establish the foundation and the baseline for all of this. So a couple of really important elements here. Obviously, the applicability for your enterprise and the timing. When do we need to comply? And what does this mean to us? And what if we have many different divisions, spread geographically, what are the exact requirements and so on? That obviously needs to be established early on. Other things in this step involves assigning ownership and resources towards this. So setting the right team and making sure that you have the right resources allocated for this journey, because it will take quite some energy and effort, again, depending on how mature and how prepared the company already is. But this is, of course, an important, part to get right from the beginning. Then there are other elements like setting the ambition level. And this can also be a tricky part. What do we want to do with this? Are we solely approaching this from a compliance perspective? Is it just important that we can comply with the new regulation? Or do we want this to do more for us? And I guess for you joining today, it makes sense to try to get more business value out. So that's a lot of it than just the compliance. But again, it depends on where you are and what the company strategically wants to do with sustainability. And then the last step, usually in this first phase is establishing a sort of a high level roadmap of the following activities. When do we do double maturity? When do we look at the gaps? When do we start looking at what actions that will require? When do we implement? And eventually, when do we need to be ready with our reporting? Then we move to the second phase, which is the double maturity. And as we can see, many of you are already in the process of this. And it makes a lot of sense to spend a good time on that because it's really a cornerstone in this whole thing. Without double maturity, you can't really move forward. So this is really one of those that has to have attention. And as most of you then will also be well aware, this is about identifying the impacts, risks and opportunity. It's around collecting, data collecting the views of stakeholders that informs these impacts, risks and opportunities. And then of course, conducting the assessment of impact and financial maturity so that you can identify the material topics for your organization. When that is done, then you're ready to move into the gap analysis, where you can take the results from the double maturity and then translate it into the requirements from from the ESIs, as Manuela mentioned. This will then enable you to identify the gaps. So comparing the requirements based on the maturity result with what you have already. So what kind of disclosure is already being performed? What data do we already have? And where do we then have the gaps? One of the important parts of this is then, of course, also to establish what is the criticality and the difficulty in closing these gaps. And this is actually where the ambition level that you set in the first phase becomes really important because many of the requirements, as Manuela also mentioned, they are more of a narrative nature. So can we comply with just stating that we do not have this or we do not want that? Or do we want to have more meat on that bone and have a more aspirational approach here? Then once the gap analysis is ready, then it's time to move into the action planning. So how are we going to attack these gaps? What are our options? What are the relevant actions to take? What does the plan look like? And how do we assign the roles and responsibilities in the organization in order to execute on those actions? That will then slide into the implementation part where we mobilize Ignite for implementation in the organization and rally the troops, maybe also build capabilities where we are lacking a little bit based on the gap analysis. And one key element here, which we'll get a little bit back to later, is also around the data side. What do we need to do with our ESD data management compared to before? And then finally, the last phase is then around the report development. So collecting the data, developing the content, and then achieve the assurance from a relevant party to be fully ready to launch. That's the recommended approach and what we see working quite well. And then we wanted to move a little bit more into double match reality as we also anticipated that this would be where a lot of you would right now be looking into and also certainly where we see a lot of companies asking for support and wanting some additional help just here, at least here for the first go. And it is clearly one of the most important elements of CSRD readiness, but it can also be one of the trickier ones. There are some clear requirements, but it's fair to say I would argue that there is a room for translation and therefore also can be some uncertain. So this is a little bit more of the opportunities. This is a little bit more of the opportunities. This of course is not a one time exercise. This is something that companies will need to repeat maybe once a year, twice a year going forward. So we very much recommend that this is something that companies invest in also building those capabilities. Maybe getting help for the first one, but really aiming at being able to do this as a company yourself in the years to come. And a little bit more on double match reality before we move into talking more about our experiences so far working with companies on this. But the benefit of a double match reality is not only that we here get our requirements clear and that it is a must have. There are also sort of more strategic benefits. For instance, in terms of the prioritization, the double match reality will make it clear what needs attention. and what needs resources, but it also explains what will not require attention and resources. So it helps align the organization around where do we need to go in terms of our direction for sustainability. And another important benefit of double match reality is around the maturity, demonstrating the maturity towards stakeholders on what are the important impacts that we as a company have. So if a double match reality is done right, then stakeholders can really see themselves and their needs and their views in the result of the assessment. But I think that was a plenty on process and our approach. I think it's a time to share a little bit on our insights and experiences with working. Will do. So through our work with our clients, we have gained a few insights about CSRD that are available. CSRD that we'd like to share with CSRD that we'd like to share with you now. Also, we'd like to touch upon what it takes to be able to turn the CSRD into a business value driver. It's not that of an easy task, I would say. So when we start working with our clients on CSRD, we see that most companies think that it's a mere reporting exercise. But it's in reality about shifting the entire organization towards more sustainability. Also, companies think that it's more sustainability. Also, companies think that it's all about compliance. It is, yes, but it's also about corporate strategy, data and systems, taking action, governance and stakeholder engagement and so forth. Oftentimes, companies also think that the CSRD is only about the environment. In reality, it's about the whole range of sustainability topics from environmental to social to social to governance topics. The CSRD is also not only about the operations of the company, but about understanding the entire upstream and downstream value chain. Last but not least, most companies think that the CSRD provides clear guidance, objective criteria. It does not. It gives you some certain framework, but it's very much dependent on the specific business context. And it requires continuous interpretation of the legal framework. In our experience, CSRD virtually has an impact on all business functions, from communication and finance responsible for the annual report to operations and procurement, but also strategy and IT, human resources and legal and so forth. In turn, this means that a wide variety of stakeholders need to be coordinated in a project, but also engaged throughout. We see that the CSRD is quite a heavy lift for many companies. So we'd like to understand a little better what challenges you're facing when preparing for CSRD. And again, please share your answers with us in the poll. You should be able to see the new poll right now. So, yeah. Is it the challenges, most challenges that you have with understanding actually the regulatory requirements or more with engaging key decision makers and mobilizing the organization to get going or to keep going, I would say? Is it regarding developing the policies, setting up the processes or governance systems and the like? Or are you facing challenges with handling the data management part? Or is it challenging for you to go through assurance? I guess it's, that's a yes for everybody. But is it, is it maybe your most, that you're most concerned about? Or do you face even other challenges? And if so, you, you might want to share them with us in the chat with a question, maybe that we can come back to it later on again. Yeah. Yeah. Kasper, we see some questions or questions, answers coming in. Definitely. I would say from the poll. Most at the moment, I would say, find it very difficult to engage the key decision makers and mobilize the organization, but also developing the content, actually, the policy, setting up the processes, the governance structures. That, that is quite of a challenge. Also, some say that getting the resources to close the identified gap. Also, that is dependent on the budget rounds you have. Sometimes the CSRD doesn't fit with the budget cycles of companies. So we have some, some issues there. Not too many of you see yet getting through the assurance process as a main challenge. Maybe you're already used to that. So, so that's. Or maybe it's a little too early. Or too early. In the game, I guess. For many companies, it'll only really, I mean, the assurance will probably only sort of start becoming a big topic when we approach the, the, the, the first report, 25 report. Yeah. Or when you, with, with companies that we consult also, they do an assurance already with, with the DMA. Correct. So they have some parts assured before and don't need to do everything at once. No. Yeah. But I would say, yeah. But I would say, yeah, the, roughly a third of you, um, facing challenges with engaging the key decision makers and mobilizing the organization. Yes. And that very much reflects, I would say, what we experienced, right? That matches, uh, quite closely. If we, if we take a look at some of the, uh, the key challenges that, that we've, uh, experienced so far, and we could have put a number of things up here, but we wanted to keep it, uh, short and, and simple. Um, so we've just picked one for each of these, uh, six phases. That, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that, uh, that we can see, uh, creates, uh, issues. Uh, and if we, if we, if we start with the first one, uh, in terms of kicking off and, and sort of establishing the starting points, we can see companies, especially larger ones, again, with, with, uh, multi, uh, division, uh, regional, uh, split and so on. Really understanding what are the exact reporting requirements, when are we really due to report and so on. And this can actually cause quite some doubts and concerns. And that's not really what you want in the beginning. As we can see also from the answers, engaging the key decision makers, mobilizing the organization, that's what you want to get to. So having to run around in circles in the beginning to figure out what does this really mean and when and how, that's quite annoying actually. So that's one we can see some companies really battling with. Then in terms of double metrality, and yes, it can certainly be tricky and there are a lot of potential challenges here. So it was hard to pick just one. But one key one, which I assume many of you will recognize, is around sort of the size of the exercise. How do we collect input and get all the relevant information and engage all the relevant stakeholders in a pragmatic manner where we are not spending thousands of hours interviewing everyone, but instead maybe picking some key people that can represent stakeholders broadly, picking the right ones and then using that input to inform the analysis. Doing that in a pragmatic way, but still avoiding that the outcome becomes too subjective. That is a hard balance to strike. And I think this is also where in the coming years, this is where we will see companies having to figure out how do we do this again in a pragmatic way, but still where we get to the right result and feel comfortable that this is how things look and how we should focus. Then in terms of the gap analysis, mentioned a little bit earlier around these narrative. And this was at least for us a bit of a surprise. We, like many, also thought that this was primarily around data points, but there's so much in there around the narrative, especially in this SBM strategy and business model chapters. What's the link between this topic and your business model and so on? Again, a narrative you can comply with any type of narrative there, but what do you really want to convey to your stakeholders? What's the story that you want to tell here? That obviously has a big impact on how you define that gap from being a, yeah, we can write anything right now. So that's not a problem to we actually need to do something here. We should have a better approach. That will obviously be a much bigger gap to close. Then when we move into the action planning, then we see many challenges around the gap closing follow-up process. So you've identified all these gaps. Maybe there is three, 400 gaps that you want to close. How do you structure that? How do you package that in a way that is actionable, that you can start engaging with the organization on? So what should the follow-up structure look like? What should the process look like? Which roles and responsibilities do you need to identify in the organization? Then we can get to the implementation. Then we can get to the implementation. Again, it varies a lot across different companies. What are the primary challenges on implementation? We can see from the poll that many of you are struggling with the policy side and so on. What we often encounter as a key challenge, often actually already early in the process, is the question around ESG data management. So many companies, even very large ones, today have a fairly manual process and rely on the process. All these things. And, while that might have been working okay in the past, then with the new reality here and with the significant increase in data requirements, this is often an area that companies need to spend a little time on figuring out. What do we do here? Do we stay as we are and try to run with that? Do we build something internally or do we even buy something that can help us get more organized around this? And then finally, on the reporting phase, then the assurance question is certainly one that is not fully answered yet. We have some good friends in the auditor companies that are also trying to figure out exactly what their role is in this, to what level of detail do they need to go. I think we'll see some stronger guidance in the coming year, exactly what this will mean and how we should adjust to that. But I would say we're already getting some experiences and we already have some interactions on certain projects, as you say, where companies ask their auditor to look into the double maturity assessment and see how have we done it, is it done in the right way and so on. So we are learning, I would say, all of us right now. All of us, yeah. It's definitely something we need to collaborate on. So now we've talked a lot about the challenges. I think this is a good time to switch and really start looking into more around the benefits. And it's quite clear that this can be used for more than just compliance. But we want to open a poll with you guys as well and just get a view. So you should see the box popping up again. The question we want to ask you is what's the primary benefit you see from preparing towards CSRD. And we've been a little strict, only giving you one option. And I guess many of you would like to put three or four, but prioritize and select one of the six options we give you here. So for instance, do you see the primary benefit simply being the compliance and meeting the new regulatory landscape? Do you see it perhaps being the primary benefit being more attractive as an employer? So demonstrating that maturity towards future, potential future employees? Do you see it as a way to improving your company's reputation? Maybe remove some of the inherent, what can we say, conceptions about the industry you're in or the type of company that you are? Could also be around the transparency. So seeing CSRD as a way to secure focus, attention and resources towards getting a little deeper into your own operations and across the value chain. So getting a better handle on, for instance, the impacts, which can be a really tricky part for many companies compared to the risks and opportunities, which are often a little more easy for a company to get a handle on, since that's often part of a a regular sort of enterprise risk management process. It could also be something around deepening the relationships with stakeholders, such as customers, suppliers, even communities. And then finally, is the main benefit simply just being future proof as a business and using that to secure this position for the future? And we actually see that most responses in the poll say that the last one, getting more future proof as a business is the main benefit. They see in preparing the benefit they see in preparing the business for CSRD. So that as a sustainability nerd, I would say that's really cool to hear. I also believe in it, that the resilience of your business will be much stronger in the future when you when you tackle those kind of questions that the CSRD poses to you and understanding better the risks, the opportunities that lie in the future, but also, as you said, the impacts. Exactly. And to me, the other big one, more than 30% is also talking about the increased transparency. And I can certainly see that also being something, especially sustainability managers out there have been struggling with in the past, getting resources to really get deeper into this. What are our impacts? A lot of perceptions are, but we don't really have a problem here. This impact here that's so far down the value chain, that's not really something we can do anything. So let's not look into it. Now this will enable sustainability managers to get the necessary attention to open up those black boxes and figure out what is really going on, right? Yeah. Cool to see. Yeah. These are definitely the two primary benefits that you see from CSRD. So while seeing and reaping the business benefits from CSRD, it is not necessarily an easy one. It's a easy task. It takes, in our view, at least four key factors to be able to create business value out of it. First and foremost, there needs to be the ambition and actually also willingness to embed sustainability in all areas of the business. That's kind of a prerequisite to be able to reap the business benefits. Also, a cross-functional, collaborative and transformative approach to the CSRD is needed to be able to create value. And third, it's all about stakeholder engagement on all levels. And you need to have the key decision makers on board and have change communication really as an integral part of the project. Lastly, it takes a fit-for-purpose IT setup, as Kasper just outlined, because you need to make the data available beyond reporting for strategic business decision making. With all of that, you will not only be able to maintain your license to operate and comply with the regulatory requirements, but you can create additional business value. You can increase your supply chain visibility and resilience by strengthening the relationships with your suppliers. And that's basically what you indicated just before as well. You can better fulfill the change in customer requirements and secure sales by really providing customers with the desired sustainability information in good time. And you can strengthen your reputation as a good corporate citizen and responsible company. That has been a key for sustainability reporting in the past. It gets less. And also, what do you say, when everybody does it, the content needs to be right and really walking the path. And you can improve employee recruitment and retention by enhancing the attractiveness of your companies for employees. Well, all in all, I think a client once put it pretty right. So she said, when I treat CSRD as a compliance exercise, it really just generates costs. But when I try to get the best out of it, I actually have the chance to get something good out of it and some some business value. And I think that's the key mindset that needs to be in place to be able to create business value out of the CSRD. Absolutely. And yeah, now it's time for your questions, I'd say. We've already received some questions, I can see in the chat box, but please keep on posing your questions in the chat. We can have a look. We can't promise to be able to answer all of it, but we will certainly give our views and just brutally, honestly share what we've experienced and whether there's anything we can help with here. But we've seen one, at least we can see here, a senior from Germany is asking around the thresholds, the applicability, which year is used for this threshold. So when do we need to comply? What is the first year of reporting? And that, again, that's exactly those kind of questions that we experienced a lot in the beginning, trying to understand when is it. We can probably give you a clear answer, senior. You are asking what is the authority to ask who regulates this in Germany. My starting point would probably be to say you need to talk to your auditor. Since this is a certain time, a number of years that you need to be fulfilling those requirements. So it's not just one year and then the next year you need to report. But if I remember correctly, it's two or three years that you need to be abolished. You need to go off that threshold in order to be in scope of the CS30. But that is exactly something, as you said, to tackle with the auditor or your legal department. And then I think we can also safely say, regardless of when the exact timing is, get started. I mean, it's never, if you believe that this is going to be mandatory at some point in time, there's no harm in getting the process started. And understand what this means, what it entails. If you do not have a double maturity assessment in place, start looking into what does this mean. These things tend to be easier if it can be spread over a longer period of time. So just get started and then figure out the other parts in the meantime. And we see that companies who have been reporting on a voluntary basis in the past using GRI, for example, that they start on a much more mature basis and it's much easier for them to implement the CSRD than some company that didn't report yet. That's much harder. So even if you're not in scope yet, start. It doesn't hurt. Then we have another question here from Nicolas asking, will the double maturity define the KPIs to be reported? Who will validate them? External auditors? Question mark. Very good question. And the short answer, if I understand it correctly, is that yes, the double maturity results. So the material topics, those will inform which part of the ESIS requirements are mandatory for you to report on. So it will tell you what disclosure requirements, which questions needs to be answered, what needs to be reported. And also on the data side, what metrics and targets do you need to communicate? So in that way, I would say that is probably the KPIs in some shape or form that you would then be able to use as KPIs also to track the progress going forward. That would certainly make sense at least to approach it like that. And if you've done kind of the relevance checking and the connection right, that's also part of the external auditing process. So yes, eventually that will be the auditors. And maybe even one step ahead, it will be the reader of your report that judge if you picked the right KPIs to report on your material sustainability topics. Then I can see we have another very good question here from Mia. Since it's a change process, should it be another person leading it or should the sustainability lead? I think this is a fantastic question. And this is really one that is highly relevant in many companies. How do we actually, especially companies that have perhaps historically been having sustainability as a bit of a sidekick going on in a corner of the organization with the sustainability report being, fairly sort of separate from the financial annual report. Now this is becoming a much higher priority. Who should then lead it? I think there are many ways to go about it. I would say in terms of who runs the process and keeps a handle on building the roadmap and instigating the different elements and so on. In my view, it certainly makes sense that sustainability is taking a responsibility on that. But I would also argue it's really important here to ensure that there is to ensure that there is senior buy-in and that there is maybe an executive team member that is taking a sponsor role on this. In many cases, we actually see finance CFO doing it these days. Again, because it is getting closer and closer linked to the financial annual reporting, it somehow makes sense that it's being a close collaboration with the finance team. But it could also be anchored elsewhere. It could be anchored in, for instance, a community. So we also focus on our communication or marketing team that makes a lot of sense when we are getting into the reporting side and talking about narrative and so on. So there are many ways to go about it. I think the most important thing is that have it on the agenda. It is a change process. I think that's the essential part and it's also what's dear to our heart here at Implement that we see that transformative and change element in the CSRG and bringing your organization forward. on that agenda. And I think maybe we have room for one last question, and I really like this one. Kitty is asking, can you mention a concrete example of where double maturity assessment resulted in direct business value? For instance, a new strategic direction defined or anything else. I think actually we can come up with several because it is interesting once you start digging into it a little more. Again, the past has often been defined by perceptions overall having a view that this is important, this is not so important. Once you start diving into it, it's actually surprising how many opportunities can be identified on some of these things that has been neglected a bit in the past. It might not be sort of groundbreaking, fundamentally changing the business model, but small elements or nuances that can be tweaked or put more in the forefront, either something you're doing today or something that could fairly easily be enabled for the future. Good one to end on, I think. I would say, yeah. We've seen many other questions and we're happy to follow up also bilaterally. Thank you so much for your questions. I hope with the entire webinar you could get some good insights and inspiration for your daily work. Yes, absolutely. Thank you so much for joining. And we wish you the best of luck with moving towards CSRD compliance and reaping the benefits. please reach out to us anytime if you need support or just a sparring partner. Thank you. Thanks and have a nice day.